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	<title>Comments on: Chrome OS and Autonomy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/</link>
	<description>Toward Free Network Services</description>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think some of these arguments confuse free-as-in-licensing with free-as-in-freedom.  For most people Gmail is no less free than Thunderbird.  They are both opaque programs that they won&#039;t extend or modify.  For many people Gmail is in fact much more free, because their mail is hosted with a relatively disinterested third party (Google) instead of an employer.  Hell, Google is usually more respectful of its users than a friend will be (simply because of the anonymity of commodity services).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In many ways the web is much more engaging and free than desktop free software.  Actually, in almost all ways.  There&#039;s no Wikipedia on the desktop, or even real wikis; even the things that call themselves wikis show off how different the ideas are: freedom to change your private information is nowhere near as democratic as freedom to change everyone&#039;s publicly shared data.  And maybe you are more free locally (no reverts), but it&#039;s only because no one cares.  Impotence will garner you a great deal of freedom.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And for the record, with Appengine you actually can change the software on Google&#039;s servers.  It&#039;s not a panacea, it&#039;s not complete, not every piece of software (even on Appengine) will be modifiable.  Probably not most; but Google can&#039;t change that even if it wanted to.  Still the only environment as democratic as Appengine is the LAMP stack; which is great for LAMP, but I think Google deserves some credit for approaching the problem with a pointedly simplified environment.  And LAMP and the web are frankly is more accessible, more programmable, more viable as a democratic platform for people to make a difference with software, than is any desktop environment.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think some of these arguments confuse free-as-in-licensing with free-as-in-freedom.  For most people Gmail is no less free than Thunderbird.  They are both opaque programs that they won&#8217;t extend or modify.  For many people Gmail is in fact much more free, because their mail is hosted with a relatively disinterested third party (Google) instead of an employer.  Hell, Google is usually more respectful of its users than a friend will be (simply because of the anonymity of commodity services).</p>

<p>In many ways the web is much more engaging and free than desktop free software.  Actually, in almost all ways.  There&#8217;s no Wikipedia on the desktop, or even real wikis; even the things that call themselves wikis show off how different the ideas are: freedom to change your private information is nowhere near as democratic as freedom to change everyone&#8217;s publicly shared data.  And maybe you are more free locally (no reverts), but it&#8217;s only because no one cares.  Impotence will garner you a great deal of freedom.</p>

<p>And for the record, with Appengine you actually can change the software on Google&#8217;s servers.  It&#8217;s not a panacea, it&#8217;s not complete, not every piece of software (even on Appengine) will be modifiable.  Probably not most; but Google can&#8217;t change that even if it wanted to.  Still the only environment as democratic as Appengine is the LAMP stack; which is great for LAMP, but I think Google deserves some credit for approaching the problem with a pointedly simplified environment.  And LAMP and the web are frankly is more accessible, more programmable, more viable as a democratic platform for people to make a difference with software, than is any desktop environment.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gary Richmond (gear) 's status on Sunday, 19-Jul-09 14:58:47 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Richmond (gear) 's status on Sunday, 19-Jul-09 14:58:47 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...]  http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/  [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  <a href="http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/" rel="nofollow">http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/</a>  [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gary Richmond (gear) 's status on Sunday, 19-Jul-09 14:57:10 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Richmond (gear) 's status on Sunday, 19-Jul-09 14:57:10 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-252</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...]  http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/  [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  <a href="http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/" rel="nofollow">http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/</a>  [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kai Hendry</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Kai Hendry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-250</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The &quot;cloud&quot; is an opensource stack. From HTML5, to the browser, to the httpd. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t buy the argument that since we&#039;re moving to Web based applications we have to use Google services. No we don&#039;t.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Linux desktop Gnome/KDE fanboys need to read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How Microsoft Lost the API War&lt;/a&gt; and start creating some kick-ass Web applications instead. :)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Free desktop is the browser!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;cloud&#8221; is an opensource stack. From HTML5, to the browser, to the httpd. </p>

<p>I don&#8217;t buy the argument that since we&#8217;re moving to Web based applications we have to use Google services. No we don&#8217;t.</p>

<p>The Linux desktop Gnome/KDE fanboys need to read <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html" rel="nofollow">How Microsoft Lost the API War</a> and start creating some kick-ass Web applications instead. <img src='http://autonomo.us/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>

<p>The Free desktop is the browser!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: yungchin</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>yungchin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-249</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When you say &quot;If switching to Chrome OS means giving up Thunderbird to use GMail, or giving up Openoffice.org to use Google Docs, or giving up Pidgin to use a web-based Google Talk, or giving up Evolution to use Google Calendar, we have reduced the influence and success of the free software desktop, not sealed its victory as Mobily suggests&quot;, I feel this should be put in a numbers-context: the percentage of desktop users that run a free OS is &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_desktop_operating_systems&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;currently well below 5%&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would think then, that most of the market share that Chrome OS will be grabbing will come from non-free OSes - which would cause no &quot;net loss of freedom&quot;. Another reason to believe that is that users that made a conscious choice for a free desktop-OS are less likely to give up their freedom than users who didn&#039;t have that freedom anyway. In other words: Chrome OS is not so much a threat to us as it is to MS and Apple.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, we will benefit from Chrome OS&#039; success: it&#039;s GNU/Linux base means we too will enjoy more extensive hardware support from vendors, and the success of Google Docs will help the push towards actually using those open document standards (I still find many peers annoyed when I send them ISO-compliant ODFs :)). &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess I&#039;d even go as far as saying that anything that helps break the monopoly-situation on the desktop market will improve the situation for free software, too, simply because having multiple big players results in faster adoption of open standards.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you say &#8220;If switching to Chrome OS means giving up Thunderbird to use GMail, or giving up Openoffice.org to use Google Docs, or giving up Pidgin to use a web-based Google Talk, or giving up Evolution to use Google Calendar, we have reduced the influence and success of the free software desktop, not sealed its victory as Mobily suggests&#8221;, I feel this should be put in a numbers-context: the percentage of desktop users that run a free OS is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_desktop_operating_systems" rel="nofollow">currently well below 5%</a>.</p>

<p>I would think then, that most of the market share that Chrome OS will be grabbing will come from non-free OSes &#8211; which would cause no &#8220;net loss of freedom&#8221;. Another reason to believe that is that users that made a conscious choice for a free desktop-OS are less likely to give up their freedom than users who didn&#8217;t have that freedom anyway. In other words: Chrome OS is not so much a threat to us as it is to MS and Apple.</p>

<p>On the other hand, we will benefit from Chrome OS&#8217; success: it&#8217;s GNU/Linux base means we too will enjoy more extensive hardware support from vendors, and the success of Google Docs will help the push towards actually using those open document standards (I still find many peers annoyed when I send them ISO-compliant ODFs <img src='http://autonomo.us/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ). </p>

<p>I guess I&#8217;d even go as far as saying that anything that helps break the monopoly-situation on the desktop market will improve the situation for free software, too, simply because having multiple big players results in faster adoption of open standards.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tics nerviosos &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Chrome OS y la Autonomía</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>tics nerviosos &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Chrome OS y la Autonomía</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-248</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] artículo aparece originalmente en Autonomo US Escrito el 16 de julio de 2009 por Benjamin Mako [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] artículo aparece originalmente en Autonomo US Escrito el 16 de julio de 2009 por Benjamin Mako [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: https://me.yahoo.com/a/YUUXbPAJ3ppjfWC77NF.3de8Eqr0r7I-#dc31b</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>https://me.yahoo.com/a/YUUXbPAJ3ppjfWC77NF.3de8Eqr0r7I-#dc31b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Chrome OS may be based on Linux, but I suspect that like its cousin Android it won&#039;t be GNU/Linux.  I&#039;ll be surprised if Chrome includes glibc or any of the GNU  utilities.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chrome OS may be based on Linux, but I suspect that like its cousin Android it won&#8217;t be GNU/Linux.  I&#8217;ll be surprised if Chrome includes glibc or any of the GNU  utilities.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Omer</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>Omer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-246</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If Chrome OS is a raging success, then it indicates a shift in the way we interact with our computers. Initially, Google will be ahead of the game, but eventually other companies and organizations will join in. Why can&#039;t we have ad-supported, open source web applications to use on our new web-based systems? Sure, it could mean working from scratch many times, but it also means a level playing field where the speed and quality of open source development will thrive.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Chrome OS is a raging success, then it indicates a shift in the way we interact with our computers. Initially, Google will be ahead of the game, but eventually other companies and organizations will join in. Why can&#8217;t we have ad-supported, open source web applications to use on our new web-based systems? Sure, it could mean working from scratch many times, but it also means a level playing field where the speed and quality of open source development will thrive.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marco Barulli</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-245</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco Barulli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-245</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Mako,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;With every shift from a piece of free software to a web-based network
  service, we have moved from a situation where a user had control over 
  his or her software — users’ of “traditional” free software have access 
  to source and have control over the system on which the computer 
  runs — to a situation where users have very little control over their 
  software at all. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;True, but just imagine if Chrome OS would embrace AGPL as the standard license. Also providing tools to easily move your data to a different instance of the same web app hosted on a different web server (maybe your own). &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I know it will probably never happen, but it would be interesting to fork the supposedly open Chrome OS project to implement such a scenario.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Marco
Clipperz co-founder&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mako,</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>With every shift from a piece of free software to a web-based network
  service, we have moved from a situation where a user had control over 
  his or her software — users’ of “traditional” free software have access 
  to source and have control over the system on which the computer 
  runs — to a situation where users have very little control over their 
  software at all. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>True, but just imagine if Chrome OS would embrace AGPL as the standard license. Also providing tools to easily move your data to a different instance of the same web app hosted on a different web server (maybe your own). </p>

<p>I know it will probably never happen, but it would be interesting to fork the supposedly open Chrome OS project to implement such a scenario.</p>

<p>Marco
Clipperz co-founder</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Benoît Huron (handraiser) 's status on Friday, 17-Jul-09 08:07:20 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/comment-page-1/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Benoît Huron (handraiser) 's status on Friday, 17-Jul-09 08:07:20 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://autonomo.us/?p=219#comment-244</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] Sensible article about Chrome OS. http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/ [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sensible article about Chrome OS. <a href="http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/" rel="nofollow">http://autonomo.us/2009/07/chrome-os-and-autonomy/</a> [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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